With less than 48 hours left of 2009, I can finally reveal (to this lonely audience of pretty much myself) my favourite article and interview of 2009. Given the opportunity to interview Thurston Moore and Lee Ranaldo - twice, once on the phone and once in person - might as well be the climax of my writing intentions. Getting Sonic Youth on the cover of a magazine may as well signal the end of my fiery passion to contribute cover stories to magazines. It didn't, but it felt at the time as if I'd done everything I'd set out to do. Why? Because this band represent ground zero for music to me. Everything that I admire and adore in my favourite bands stem from the experimental and commercial achievements of this New York quartet. Their seamless blending of art and music, music and noise has been inspirational since my first listen. Every album has something to cling to, or rather something to springboard from. The one thing SY seem incapable of is standing still. It would be churlish of me to say they can do no wrong...so fuck it, they can do no wrong. If thirty years down the line I could write and disseminate anywhere near as well as they craft and play, I'd be the happiest man that ever lived. Every time I feel like giving up, they remind me there's no substance in failure and that each mistake is merely a lesson learned or something to be embraced, because it's still part of you no matter how hard you try and ignore it. Pushing headlong into something because you feel it's right is the only way forward, even if it means alienating hordes of people forever. Sonic Youth are continually unafraid to be unafraid. Meeting them in person only confirmed this - with Thurston standing up halfway through and leafing through the books on the shelf and handing some tomes out to his bandmates to flick through, Lee and Thurston's discussion about my Pac Man-related t-shirt - they seem to be consistently learning and passing on what they learn. If I can carry this into 2010, as I hope I've done every year, then this article will have been worth the paper it was printed on and the time I took up organising it, writing it and the time the band and PR gave up in order for this to happen.
Sonic Youth: even the name sounds like vital intent – Playmusic Pickup gets the opportunity to talk to guitarists/vocalists Thurston Moore and Lee Ranaldo about leaving a major label and the renewed freedom expressed in The Eternal.
Imagine, if you will, hundreds, thousands of lines all intersecting at one point then spreading out again to places unknown. Now, think of each line before the intersection as a different form of rock music, all from different roots and ideas. When we reach the intersection the lines that spill forth from it represent completely different branches of rock and guitar-based music: post-punk, grunge, metal and everything inbetween.
This intersecting of lines, apart from looking pretty and complex, is also rare. You can count them on the two hands in front of you. The one we’re interested in though is formed from a group of individuals in New York around the most fertile time of post-punk artistry and the resulting creative and short-lived explosion dubbed, sarcastically, as No Wave.
It’s hard to adequately explain how much Sonic Youth have done in their 27 year career to change popular music. Perhaps the easiest way would be to say this: it’d be pretty difficult to imagine Kurt Cobain making such a prominent, head-turning racquet – and having the confidence to do so – without Thurston Moore, Lee Ranaldo, Kim Gordon and Steve Shelley’s influence. Sonic Youth were already seven albums in when they started making waves on MTV with their grunge-slacker-inspired video for Dirty Boots on Universal owned subsidiary Geffen Records. In their time for independent labels they had come from a minimalist and experimental sonic background, before moving on to noise sound collages, vicious atonality and gradually incorporating psychedelic and lengthy, spaced out noise passages in otherwise melodic rock songs. By the time grunge had hit, they had already started moving on from the straightforward rock template they had accidentally established with 1990’s Goo and 1992’s Dirty.
With their 16th studio album, Sonic Youth are at a turning point in their distinguished output. The point is that, after 16 years on a major label, they are back on an independent: the much-celebrated Matador Records. Far from being reticent about talking of their former label, as he towers over me, even when he’s sitting, Thurston Moore seems reluctant to stop talking.
“One has millions and millions of capital…and one does not,” he starts, grinning, before continuing. “Matador has a good sense of taste and actual aesthetics whereas major labels tend to get mired down in too much and they release a lot of stuff that you can’t imagine they are really behind.”
Sonic Youth signed to Geffen Records after unsatisfactory stints on independents, unable to offer proper distribution for their records. Thurston explains that Geffen was “a nice little factory” where friends and respected professionals all congregated, including those involved with legendary label SST (started by Greg Ginn, guitarist of pioneering hardcore band Black Flag). Unfortunately the homely feel didn’t last long.
“David Geffen himself left a year or so after we signed with them. Within two years everyone we’d worked with was gone. Just gone. It was all over but we had a long-term contract and we kinda played it out.” Sonic Youth stayed with the Universal owned Geffen until 2006 and released nine albums through them.
“It was pretty unsatisfying over a number of years. We knew that was the risk, it could’ve been worse, it could’ve been better,” shrugs Thurston. “We never spent that much money, we maintained our dignity through the whole thing. There was a core audience there. I think, if anything, when you’re on a label that has a certain vapidity to it, that doesn’t do you any service. I don’t like buying records that I’m kind of interested in on those labels because I don’t like those labels. So that became a little worrisome and I was only too happy to see it end.”
Despite the ‘big labels are bad’ rhetoric, Sonic Youth never let business interfere with their work, keeping a low profile and releasing fairly consistent releases throughout the nineties and early 00s.
“I think we were always maintaining a progression with our work but there was a little bit of a stink on us because of them. At the same time there were some people there who would’ve loved to have seen us succeed but our music is difficult to work with,” admits Thurston. “The industry had changed, there was no such thing as artist development anymore. That still existed when we signed to Geffen but that died really fast and it was all about: ‘if your record doesn’t do a certain amount of business in one week…’”
“They’re on to you, and you’re dropped,” laughs Lee Ranaldo, silver mained, intelligent foil to Thurston’s firecracker humour. “It’s a really stupid system, a really stupid way to judge anything.”
“We got health insurance. It definitely has its merits,” smirks Thurston.
There are no reservations as to what they think about leaving the label though. Thurston tells it like it is: “It’s like being let out of prison after years and years.”
“It feels great,” reckons Lee. “It’s moving from this big corporate entity where music seemed almost like a tangential issue to moving to a place where everyone’s super interested in what they’re doing, super knowledgable about the music super excite to have us and is a label that’s putting out a lot of interesting music that we would honestly listen to. Gerard, the president of the label, you know, he wrote some of the earliest reviews of our band and put out some of our early records so it’s cool.”
Specifically on his independent label Homestead, who put out third album Bad Moon Rising and the Death Valley ’69 12” single in 1985 – arguably their first conventional song rock song. What’s so appropriate about this apparent homecoming is that not only does it suit Sonic Youth now, but The Eternal represents a continuation of the more straight-forward songwriting Sonic Youth began with their last major label release Rather Ripped. It’s as if the records Universal would’ve loved Sonic Youth to make throughout their time with them have now started to be made, (hopefully) to the benefits of Matador. Naturally, Sonic Youth don’t really see this from their perspective, and we wouldn’t have it any other way.
“We see every record as its own entity. It’s definitely part of the progress we were doing. The new songs are always your most exciting. It’s what you’re writing now and it’s relative to what condition you’re in,” explains Lee. Does this mean Sonic Youth don’t see comparisons between older material and newer records?
“Sometimes,” admits Thurston. “Sometimes you’re playing something and it reminds you of something you did. You know, we just did these Daydream Nation tours where we learned all that stuff and that was kinda interesting because it puts you back in this place of how you were playing at that point in time.” These tours were in conjunction with respected promoters/record label/festival organisers ATP as part of their notorious Don’t Look Back series where seminal albums are performed in their entirety by a variety of different artists. Daydream Nation is seen as a seminal American rock record. Released in 1988, Sonic Youth’s sixth album saw the interest in their music from listeners and industry leap, and it’s seen as important enough to have been included in the National Recording Registry by the Library of Congress in 2006.
“We’ve completely changed since then. There’s certainly interesting things we were doing then. It’s certainly more primal. That was inspiring. You learn from your past, things you had forgotten.” Sonic Youth are liable to forget previous states of mind and compositional ideas, simply because they continue to forge new paths each time they re-emerge. Often, inbetween albums, they will have collaborated with noise artists like Merzbow and jazz saxophonists such as Mats Olaf Gustafsson – as captured live on their recent SYR recording SYR8: Andre Sider Af Sonic Youth. – and often these extreme experiments give life to official studio albums. These collaborations and extreme directions are often showcased on their very own SYR label, with SYR8 being the latest. Experimental and improvisational musician Jim O’Rourke joined the band after their dabbling on the third SYR for two of their most recent albums: 2002’s Murray Street and 2004’s Sonic Nurse. In another way, these other outlets have meant that the last two Sonic Youth records have seen far less of the noise jams and atonal experiments of yore.
“In general though when we make a record we don’t think about the last one,” explains Lee. “We don’t compare them or conceptualise what we’re about to do in any way. We seem to have stripped out the improve elements because that side of our music is satisfied elsewhere.”
“We know what we don’t want to do!” exclaims Thurston. “I dunno it’s weird. When you’re getting ready to make a record you start focusing on sitting down and writing songs and I don’t find myself doing that every day only because of the minutae of the day taking up your time. You know, other things your interested in. To make sure you’re playing songs up tot two hours every day must be insane!” Thurston laughs, good humour spilling from him when you just know he’s got to be a little tired from talking.
So what replaces constant songwriting in the days of Sonic Youth’s frontmen? Thurston’s answers first. “I file noise cassettes.”
Hopefully, what you’ve gathered at this point is that Sonic Youth are not simply a band who make music. To clarify, they are four (or five) individuals who have consistently crafted artistic endeavours using different mediums, fiercely championed local and global artists of all kinds, often using contemporary artists for their sleeve art – although in The Eternal’s case, the artwork painting of late folk/bluegrass artist John Fahey – and throughout have maintained their experimental roots. Their stint on a major record label is an important, and huge, chapter in their lengthy careers. More than anything it brought the wilder side of guitar music to a far wider audience than anyone could’ve expected. The significance of moving away from that era cannot be underplayed. The band seem happier in their position now than at any other time and that comes across in The Eternal’s playfulness and, according to Thurston, even in the “audacity” of it’s title. “I was thinking that this band will last forever. It can’t end. Therefore ‘The Eternal’” he explained over the phone in Brooklyn a week before our meeting. With renewed Sonic Life in their post-major label incarnation, their Eternal may not actually be literal, but can easily be traced within the lines that spew forth, unending, from the intersection they began in.
Brad Barrett
The Highlights of Sonic Youth’s Discography
Sonic Youth (1982)
Is it an album or an EP? Five songs (since expanded to thirteen with the inclusion of an early live set on the reissue) that showcase minimalist intentions in an early incarnation of the band.
Confusion Is Sex (1983)
Originally a single, this caustic, atonal beast arose from those humble intentions and radically changed SY’s sound. All guitars were drastically alternate tuned, starting a discordant journey that would later become the template for so-called alternative rock.
Bad Moon Rising (1985)
Notable for their first ever video for Death Valley ’69, a collaboration with No Wave poet, actress and musician Lydia Lunch, it was also their most conventional song. The album has no gaps between songs, mimicking their live sets which had long periods of retuning needed by each guitarist where silence just wouldn’t do.
Evol/Sister/Daydream Nation (1986 – 1988)
The end of the independent years and three albums in consecutive years which saw melody, and subtlety weave their way into the band’s music. Evol was the first album with now permanent drummer Steve Shelley.
Goo/Dirty (1990/1992)
The grunge years. Solid rock albums with guest stars like Chuck D from Public Enemy (on Kool Thing from Goo) and Ian McKaye from Minor Threat/Fugazi (on Youth Against Facism from Dirty) and a huge variety of ideas throughout.
Experimental, Jet Set, Trash & No Star/Washing Machine/A Thousand Leaves/NYC Ghost and Flowers (1994 – 2000)
Seems a shame to lump these four wildly different albums together, but these records seemed to fight against the very idea of a commercial, major label album. Each one has a different recording style, song composition and in the case of NYC, a different set of instruments – their entire, unique setup, was stolen on tour, leaving them to start from scratch and create their least well-received (yet still amazing) record.
Murray Street/Sonic Nurse (2002/2004)
Jim O Rourke joined the band for these two records, and helped make the most beautiful and startlingly original material. This was twenty odd years into their career, still pushing boundaries.
Rather Ripped/The Eternal (2006/2009)
End of an era, Sonic Youth forge ahead as ever, this time seemingly unable to stop making seemingly classic tunes.
SYR 4 – Goodbye 20th Century (1999)
A nod to their masses of artistic influences, Sonic Youth dedicate an entire double album to covers of avant-garde classical artists – John Cage, Steve Reich, Yoko Ono are just three included on this brave and challenging record.
SYR 7 – J’Accuse Ted Hughes (2008)
As a way of showing Sonic Youth cater for no one but themselves, J’Accuse Ted Hughes is a 23 minute live recording of an improvisational noise piece (then titled New Drone) they opened their 2000 ATP Festival headline slot with. The notorious set continued with instrumental versions of unreleased songs destined for NYC Ghost and Flowers and ended with one song from A Thousand Leaves, Sunday. Amazing.
Ciccone Youth – The Whitey Album (1989)
Combining their rabid sense of humour and adoration of pop, the Whitey Album was a beatbox and sampler experiment which included some Madonna and Robert Palmer covers. It’s insane, borderline genius and an essential element of the many-faceted shape of Sonic Youth.
……and there’s plenty more where that came from.
http://sonicyouth.com/mustang/lp/
Got Daydream Nation? Where to go next (as told by some silly young journalist a few years ago): http://artbaretta.blogspot.com/2007/06/next-album-dilemma.html
There’s tonnes of info about Sonic Youth and their related projects. They’re all worth investigating at some point in your life.
www.sonicyouth.com
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